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DarkBytes

Splicing Videos

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DarkBytes

I'm pretty lazy so I'll just bullet this out and be straight to the point.

  • What application/program should I use to splice videos?
  • Will there be a loss in quality if I splice?
  • Any other tips?

 

I think that's all for now.

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Gariland666
Posted (edited)

use avidemux no loss in quality if you use muxer as output

btw dont let the name of the program fool you it supports all container types

Edited by Gariland666
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Nyan

You will lose some quality if you re-encode. If you splice and copy the stream (as suggested above), there will be no quality loss, however, note that you can only splice from an I-frame boundary (in other words, you may not be able to cut at the exact point that you want).

In theory, you could combine the two if you needed more precision (re-encode a single GOP and join with original video), but it may be more effort/complex than it's worth.

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LastReaction
Posted (edited)

Best video splicing program that 100% does not re-encode the video and can split very accurately: https://www.videohelp.com/software/SolveigMM-Video-Splitter

 

The catch is that its trialware, but there are some pirated versions circulating the internet out there if you know where to look. I use it all the time and it works flawlessly.

Edited by LastReaction
Added some more info.
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DarkBytes
6 hours ago, LastReaction said:

Best video splicing program that 100% does not re-encode the video and can split very accurately: https://www.videohelp.com/software/SolveigMM-Video-Splitter

 

The catch is that its trialware, but there are some pirated versions circulating the internet out there if you know where to look. I use it all the time and it works flawlessly.

Sounds good, I'll check it out later. Any tips beforehand on using it?

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Moodkiller

mkvtoolnix can do this (either by chapters, frame numbers, timestamps and a few other options) - unless I'm missing something here.

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Rubin
1 minute ago, Moodkiller said:

mkvtoolnix can do this (either by chapters, frame numbers, timestamps and a few other options) - unless I'm missing something here.

You are, it appears to lock onto the nearest I-frame and the cut can be off by seconds from where you want.

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DarkBytes

Yes and I wouldn't like that especially since I'd be specifically using VCB's new encode of Spice and Wolf and replace the EDs with the NCEDs. the EDs aren't actually at the very end because there's always the previews. Unless you know something we don't, please do share. I'm just about to start on this field of matter.

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Rubin
Posted (edited)

Try what @LastReaction mentioned. It's been quite awhile since I used it it so my memory is vague. I checked after he mentioned it and my trial version lapsed long ago as the version number indicated.

You can grab the free trial version if need be to see if it does what you want, then look around for one with the serial.

 

Edited by Rubin
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DarkBytes

I've already got the Business Edition installed and yes, I will do try later.

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Moodkiller
54 minutes ago, Rubin said:

You are, it appears to lock onto the nearest I-frame and the cut can be off by seconds from where you want.

 

41 minutes ago, DarkBytes said:

Yes and I wouldn't like that especially since I'd be specifically using VCB's new encode of Spice and Wolf and replace the EDs with the NCEDs. the EDs aren't actually at the very end because there's always the previews. Unless you know something we don't, please do share. I'm just about to start on this field of matter.

Eh, any (better-than-the-rest) encoding group would put key frames at the start and end of OPs/EDs/Previews etc so that one can split it correctly i.e to the exact frame. Cant speak for VCB encodes, but worth a try tbh. Also in relation to the original post:

  • What application/program should I use to splice videos? (mkvmerge)
  • Will there be a loss in quality if I splice? (No)
  • Any other tips? (See above).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Moodkiller
1 minute ago, DarkBytes said:

@Moodkiller doesn't MKVToolNix include MKVMerge?

That it does, and mkvinfo, mkvpropedit and mkvextract etc etc

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DarkBytes
6 minutes ago, Moodkiller said:

 

Eh, any (better-than-the-rest) encoding group would put key frames at the start and end of OPs/EDs/Previews etc so that one can split it correctly i.e to the exact frame. Cant speak for VCB encodes, but worth a try tbh.

I do know about key frames since I've worked with Aegisub (you know that) and I do plan to make it accurate, but I don't know where in MKV Tool Nix is the splicing option. Is it the split? The segmenting? I don't know. that's the specific thing I want when I said this:

 

10 minutes ago, Moodkiller said:

Unless you know something we don't, please do share.

Basically, the steps.

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Moodkiller

@DarkBytes - LOL oh... my bad. Yes the section I'm thinking of is under the "Output" tab located in the "Splitting" section.

Spoiler

MKVToolNix_GUI_v32.0.0_('Astral_Progress

If you hover over the field below the "Split mode", it will give you a tool tip on the syntax to use

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DarkBytes

Aight thanks, I'll try this out first before LastReaction's recommendation. I should also probably update my ToolNix. I only have The Awakening version.

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Moodkiller
3 minutes ago, DarkBytes said:

Aight thanks, I'll try this out first before LastReaction's recommendation. I should also probably update my ToolNix. I only have The Awakening version.

No problem. LR's method should definitely work as well, if not better as we may have established. But if all the key frames align, mkvtoolnix will work just fine.

Also GG... v28.2.0 - not too bad but yeah still out of date 😛

 

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Nyan
48 minutes ago, Moodkiller said:

Eh, any (better-than-the-rest) encoding group would put key frames at the start and end of OPs/EDs/Previews etc so that one can split it correctly i.e to the exact frame

Nit-picking a bit here, but I can't really imagine anyone doing it for the purposes of splitting. More than likely, forcing I-frames there is to allow chapter jumps to work nicely, particularly for players which can only seek to I-frames. Although, even if you don't force them, there's a good chance that the video encoder will put them around there anyway.

 

Note that splitting from anything other than an I-frame is not a program limitation, it's a technical one (something which all applications must obey). All inter-frames in the GOP require it as they reference the I-frame. The only way around this limitation is to re-encode the GOP.

For splitting to (i.e. end part of the split), theoretically you could split to anywhere as long as it isn't a B-frame (i.e. you could split to the nearest I or P frame). Usually encoders like x264 and later will try to use a lot of B-frames though, so it may not be that much better. Again, the limitation can be worked around by re-encoding the GOP.

I suppose you could try hacks like using VFR to skip past some frames, but I have doubts over how well they could work.

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Moodkiller
44 minutes ago, Nyan said:

Nit-picking a bit here, but I can't really imagine anyone doing it for the purposes of splitting. More than likely, forcing I-frames there is to allow chapter jumps to work nicely, particularly for players which can only seek to I-frames. Although, even if you don't force them, there's a good chance that the video encoder will put them around there anyway.

Yeah, the only immediate reason for it that I can see is if the encoder / release group wanted to do an Ordered Chapters release. But thank goodness that mostly seems to be a dead / frowned upon idea. There is a strong change that a reference frame of some sorts will be at the start of OP/ED's due to the different video content, but sure can't be applicable for all releases.

 

48 minutes ago, Nyan said:

Note that splitting from anything other than an I-frame is not a program limitation, it's a technical one (something which all applications must obey). All inter-frames in the GOP require it as they reference the I-frame. The only way around this limitation is to re-encode the GOP.

For splitting to (i.e. end part of the split), theoretically you could split to anywhere as long as it isn't a B-frame (i.e. you could split to the nearest I or P frame). Usually encoders like x264 and later will try to use a lot of B-frames though, so it may not be that much better. Again, the limitation can be worked around by re-encoding the GOP.

I suppose you could try hacks like using VFR to skip past some frames, but I have doubts over how well they could work.

Very insightful o7

 

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Nyan
2 hours ago, Moodkiller said:

Yeah, the only immediate reason for it that I can see is if the encoder / release group wanted to do an Ordered Chapters release.

I was actually referring to regular chapters, where it's strictly optional, but probably a good idea nonetheless. For ordered chapters, it would almost be a requirement.

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LastReaction
12 hours ago, DarkBytes said:

Sounds good, I'll check it out later. Any tips beforehand on using it?

Nope, its pretty straight forward. If you have any questions please PM me as I'm very experienced with the software and have been using it for years.

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DarkBytes

I don't really know or understand what I-frames, P-frames, or K-frames are, but I do have an idea.


So results are in, and I'm unsatisfied with both.

  • Let's start with MKVToolNix. As it has been said before, it locks on to the nearest I-frame, so it's not accurate. But, there was no quality loss, the process was smooth and clean, and above all it was fast.
  • Now, for SolveigMM, it did cut at the frame I wanted it to do so, and it was not a reencode so it was fast, but not as fast or even near ToolNix's speed. Thing is,
    1: it might get laggy (slow loading), especially for large files
    2: Also CPU usage costy
    3: I probably need to download extensions cause it didn't couldn't decode the FLAC of the previously said vids I'm working on
    4: There's quality loss (especially at the beginning)

I'm still gonna push through, though I will be using MKVToolNix. I think I can get around it somehow and do something smart.

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Moodkiller
On 3/18/2019 at 8:53 PM, DarkBytes said:

I'm still gonna push through, though I will be using MKVToolNix. I think I can get around it somehow and do something smart.

Curious... what are you going to try? Also did it work if you have already tried it?

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Rubin

I re-installed SolveigMM-Video-Splitter and after changing  the time format under the View tab it cuts exactly where I ask it to.

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LastReaction
On 3/18/2019 at 3:53 AM, DarkBytes said:

Now, for SolveigMM, it did cut at the frame I wanted it to do so, and it was not a reencode so it was fast, but not as fast or even near ToolNix's speed. Thing is,
1: it might get laggy (slow loading), especially for large files
2: Also CPU usage costy
3: I probably need to download extensions cause it didn't couldn't decode the FLAC of the previously said vids I'm working on
4: There's quality loss (especially at the beginning)

I did not experience any of the issues you had with SolveigMM. What version of the software were you using, and was it a trial version? I'm currently splitting HEVC 10-bit FLAC videos quickly and easily with no errors or problems. The files I'm splitting are ~1GB on average, and of course the CPU usage is going to spike lol, it will with MKVToolNix as well.

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